Insider: No milk is not correct second layer stuff is inaccurate. ..
I need to go over the information and brake down the way the Cu's work . The Ace and render out put tmu and shader cores.. cos due to the command and compute customisation the numbers are very traversed.
Not 7770 closer to 8870 or r280 gpu core but not the same as its so custom.. you can clearly see the x1 xpu core is larger then the 7780 from ps4 diagram.
I know 3072 is the cu raw performance but that wont translate in to shaders ether... this is extremely hard to number because the engine can choose ether value.. rop's are also able to out put large values also.no need for 32...
there is no kinect native processing hardware on soc .. it is time sliced into cpu gpu cycles 10% allocated which does not need to be there any more. It will be engine specific in the next update. As kinect will process straight to command buffer. Kinect is 95% offload. 10% only because of beta kinect drivers....
more on the 2nd layer soon..
MIsterx: We still confusing by your dp meaning.
Is it a)2.6 dp or b) dp is to get 1.31x2 = 2.6?
If a) then 2.6 could be multiplied even more by x2-x4 depends of engine?
If b) that would mean your dp meaning is x2 stereo.
Insider: It is hard to give the answer all I know is.
Mono one gpu thread 1.3 no offload sp
Stereo two gpu thread 1.3 + 1.3 = 2.6tf dp @ 853
1ghz would be 1.52 I believe could be a little more per thread. Stereo mode is with offload. With out off load second thread becomes recourse management and audio processing and dot matrix. And other. This link is old tech but will give some basic idea principles. In regards to a few questions.
Accelerator is different and cpu .. accelerator is start and finish.. new technology require's new software and new way's of thinking.. like cell but more of a whole system approach with games and gfx computation's in mind .. supercomputer on chip... soc :)
Misterx: Can you resend your last mail...i've deleted it.
Again 2.6dp...seems like only in stereo mode 2.6 could be further multipled by 2 or 4(depenfs on engine). Seems like there is:
- 1.3tf sp+ 1.31dp
- 1.31sp + 1.31SP x 2 or 3 in stereo mode.
On mono it is only 1.31TF SP.double - precision is with stereo .. it works extremely effective on x1 architecture due to the dual memory read write nature of esram caching. The fundamental that lies beneath are also able to do 128 bit double double floating point. But I its technical impossible to explain or to understand the gpummu intill dx 12 and c++amp are implemented in hardware. Hsa is the turning point. Smid can do 4x pass / 32 4x / 64 x2 /1 x 128 all tho 128 would be slower and take more memory caching. Memory caching is key to feeding the gpu and gpummu. Having your code at the right place at the right timeSo the theoretical number for the cu / su is 12 / each cu has 4 smid . each 4 smid have 4 ex processors. So that is 16ex per cu/su so each cu can do 4 x passes at 32bit 12 x 4 = 48 . 48 x 16 = 768 . 768 x 4 32bit pass = 3072 .. although the sweet spot for x1 architecture is 64bit due to the cache and data move engines. 1536 sc/ and cu do not have a problem doing parallel processing separate from the gpu because the cache can read and write both ways. The gpu can also off load to the cpu cu's also ... hsa coherent memory caching. Dig this mrc ... I have left a few things out but you people can fill in the details :)
Misterx: Liked latest info from go_lantern_op. A little different wording to mictercteam but the same result.
go_lantern_op: 1.3tf DP now but can be upclocked/unlocked to 2.75tf DP (10-12x power of 360 as MS have stated)
1.3tf * 4= 5.2tf but split into 4 APU threads with 3 threads acting as gpu focused and 1 thread acting as CPU focused but can change based devs needs
2.75tf * 4= Max power
It is why insider says top layer is 1.3tf @ 853mhz with mono and stereo. DP splits the dual logic/thread gpu into 2 more XPU thread.
They choose top layer as CPU layer because DXcores are older CU but still capable of dual logic, underlying CU tech (nested paralism)-(samsung cpu + XCUs) use new core tech.
X1 is perfect fusion of GPU and CPU----> XPU, H-CU changes to XCU
I guess what im trying to say.
2.75tf dual logic 280x GPU underclock to 1.3tf. Forza/RYSE use dual logic= 2.6tf (2 XPU threads). QB/SO use stereo/DP + dual logic= 5.2tf (4 XPU threads) plus 1.3tf headroom
Misterx: What do you mean when type 2.6dp? Dp... it is already applied to gain 2.6sp in stereo....or could be further applied to 2.6 to make it 2.6dp=2.6 x4 or x2 sp?
Misterx: It is more clear about 2.6dp now..thanks...so when you told no more than 4-5tf for the whole system it was DP! Insider: The 5 tf Dp figure is theoretical... performance will vary.. ps4 is also able to hit higher theoretical performance .. because of ace ques ... but nothing like x1 architecture. But devs will have to work hard due to memory functions and balancing the accelerator but will see huge gains. E3 will change the minds....
Misterx: That is pretty big news...Insider have just confirmed 5TF DP theoretical power for whole system. 4TF for real life use. 2.6DP GPU@853Mhz+special HW + upclock. Misterx: 4TF DP sure can do some ray tracing and last 10-12 years. Xbox Infinity was in plan for Xbox One name. I hope you know how much SP is in DP. I afraid to post this number now in 2014 as 95% still will not understand. AMD
said last week at GDC: DX12 is like 4 generational leap. Misterx: And last but not least. AMD have just announced their new video card...2.6 DP perfomance = 5.2 SP. Strange they talk about DP while nobody use this term for ages expect us to meassure perfomance. All mistercteam dig and insider info about 2.6 dp almost confirmed.
Mistercteam: 2.6TF DP on new CU = 5.2TF SP !!!!!
AMD, confirm like i already said 10000 times, AMD W9100 2.6TF DP = 5.2TF SP. Basically what AMD said, is to get 2.6TF DP you dont need 10TF (misterx: as in GCN 1.0).MIsterx
: Congratulations MisterC! Well done, well done. 2 days before AMDs today announcment Insider confirmed to me 1DP: 2SP ratio is more balanced on x1 architecture. My bad i post this only now.MIsterx: Why at E3 MS will talk about hardware? Games, games, games...Also MS team member said they planed to talk about true Xbox One power only in 2015. Do not think they will talk about hardware this E3 too much...another event we will be disappointment. MS opted to hide it for a dumb ducking reasons we could only imagine. They choose to loose prorit now and get more later.Maybe SDF corrected their plans :) that is why i say the more SDF lie the better for Xbox fans :).Insider: Link to Microsoft employer discussing hardware specific detail coming in 2015 .. Pleasealso E3 will be games games games games and more games.. I can say this there is no way 1.3tf console is doing these games mini 2.6 mini ... I think they will open more discussion at build and pax.. but e3 will see hardware discussions just not a deep dive.
Misterx: here is a link http://misterxmedia.livejournal.com/150394.htmlFormer Xbox One design team member: You guys should be detectives. I was part of the initial design of the Xbox One and have since left to form a startup. The goal was to have a 10-year lifecycle for the console and the only way to do so is to stack silicon and slowly unlock power over the course of its lifetime.I feel we made a bit of a mistake in the first rev in not releasing enough power. It's a simple firmware tweak and from what I understand speaking to my ex-coworkers a tweak is planned from the first major firmware update to bring it in parity with the PS4 in terms of power. I understand that games like Assassins's Creed 4 and Battlefield 4 will get updates to unlock 1080p 60fps but I don't have much insider knowledge outside of Microsoft on that matter.It may seem like a crazy play but just think of five years from now when the PS4 is completely tapped out and Sony is forced to release a new console all we do is turn the final knobs and have a console that is 3 - 4x more powerful at a $200 price point. Management has said it before and I will back it up, this is not a sprint -- it's a marathon. By E3 the true power of the Xbox One will be realized, make my words.Former Xbox One design team member: Just a little trivia. We called this effort "Project 22" internally based on passage 22 from The Art of War by Sun Tzu:"22. If your opponent is of choleric temper, seek to irritate him. Pretend to be weak, that he may grow arrogant."I pinged one of my previous co-workers this morning and he was really reluctant to share any new information. It seems they are a little up in arms at the moment with all of the leaks. This information was supposed to be a big surprise that was not going to be revealed until E3 2015 at the earliest. I have to admit Sony did fool us into thinking they had weaker hardware but as long as we unlock just 20% of our reserved capacity we will not only be in parity with the PS4, we will exceed its performance in most cases. Keep in mind, that's with only 20% of the hidden power unlocked. We still have 80% to unleash over they next 10 years.I am convinced that books will be written about this strategy one day. Never before has a consumer electronics device pulled off such an amazing feat of secrecy and long-term customer value.
Misterx: Great info.Hope 2015 will not be too late and you guys have a plan how to conquer all negativuty and lie about Xbox. Social media and FUD could kill any brand nowadays(Misterx dissclamer: As i beleive Sony 1st party employeers use lie and brainwash in full force on internet since 2009 as they know MS will dominate them no matter what and will create better system and infrustructure. Sony is almost bankrupt and prepair to go software only).insidr1234: I've signed up with an account so I can keep posting and not be anonymous. Like I said, they are looking at releasing an update that will put them at performance parity with the PS4 with the next major firmware release. This will be before E3 for sure.smash_mouth
:...the only reason I visited..XboxNeo @ Union Video Game forums.In response to someone asking for an easier explanation about DX12 and XB1..."That would be a bit like trying to explain the higgs-boson to you. You would have to know what a g-buffer is, and the role it plays in deferred rendering, and why with Esram and DX12, g-buffers are a hack that is no longer needed on the x1.""Which is a really amazing development, but not really easy to explain without all the fundamental discussion about global illumination strategies.""Think elegant solution rather than brute force...""The PS4 is a Lamborghini, yes. But the X1 is a Cesna 172. It only does 130mph, but it can fly. The Lambo is just a car... The Cesna will still always get there first."...About PS4/MLB..."Already happening. Apparently waxy face but at 1080p is some cutting edge graphics development. Where as Subsurface scatter for natural looking skin (Ryse) but only at 900p is some crushing defeat. lol.""Well I was hoping for good graphics and animation... But with the latest Sony offering not being as good as an X1 launch title in either the good graphics or animation department..." "But hey that 1080p using last gen game engines.... woooooo.... Yeah...... Last gen games in new tv selling 1080p from the failing 1080p tv company... go gamer.... Characters who look like they are molded out of wax in all its 1080p glory...""DDR3 is plenty fast as a 1080p render target. Rendering a 1080p screen at 60fps only takes like 1/2 gig second of bandwidth. No need to put it in ESRam...""Because up until now z-buffer rasterizers were the way to go. However now that there is a paradigm shift under way expect to see more APU's instead of discrete components. For example, DX12 preserves the scene geometry for the entire duration of the render pipeline, eliminating the need for a g-buffer. That's a huge shift right there, and one that is basically incompatible with the existing infrastructure.""Is there a single PS4 game yet that has hundreds of characters on the screen at once?"And no one is arguing against the idea that the PS4 is clearly the superior console at rendering the waxy and stiff looking figures that you see in games like Infamous: Second Son."I am arguing that the PS4 can't match the visual fidelity of games like Ryse (or it would have by now...) or even get the character count of games like Dead Rising 3, or match the online experience of Titan Fall...""In that regard it has taken last gen concepts to their logical conclusion, while the rest of the world is moving onto other things..." The PS4 is the very best last gen console you can buy. ( smash--I'll add the BOOM here...lol Smash...after a laughable amount of trolling by the ponies Neo gets hot and lets loose a truth canon..."I can't wrap my head around people who will go back and forth saying "no it isn't" every time Microsoft has the temerity to make a statement about the x1.""Look, if you don't like Microsoft, fine. I stay out of the PS side of this site for exactly that reason. The PS4 is obsolete tech junk. All the next gen stuff is happening on the x1. Nothing next gen is happening on the PS4. The PS4 is literally exactly like the old consoles, with nothing new what so ever added (Morpheus is DOA, just like the last virtual reality head set that Sony released...) The PS4 is designed to do nothing but create a reason for people to get 1080p televisions if they haven't already. That is why they are sacrificing good graphics for 1080p on every single game.""Again man... The PS4 has done nothing to further the most recent development in z-buffer technology. Physically biased deferred shading... Which is as you know is a heavily latency sensitive operation."...ponies started jumping off of buildings and calling for back up after this backhander...lol"It took a Titan running on a $5000 PC with DX12 to get the same level of fidelity on Forza, a launch game... Just Saying... I think pretty much defines "obsolete" now as opposed to this summer..."Best gif posted there in response to this...ms_xbotx1: Hidden PowerProve the PS4 is more powerful then the XB1.MS has the only 1080p/60fps game that actually has textures so far this genThe Order needs 2 black bars on screen forcing the player to have to play within an 800p gaming area just for Sony to say the game is 1080p. Linear gameplay and no multi player coop.Driveclub....went back to the drawing board as the devs were having a hard time to keep a solid 30fps.Infamous is an empty city with no life and full of fog to blur the textures in order for Sony to hit 1080p and it's still only 30fpsSony LIED about KZ being 1080p/60fps. Not only did KZ turn out to struggle at 30fps, Titanfall's BETA had a higher resolution then KZ.So I ask you, what proof do you have that the PS4 is more powerful then the XB1?Multiplats? LMFAO since when do multiplats dictate the strengths of a system? Especially last gen ports that are using last gen dev tools.I hate ignorant people.